*** The New Helderberg (SA295) Disaster Thread ***

[Gunship]

Your wish is my command Blikkies. I for one surely look forward to your posts.

Please note that the old and original Helderberg thread can still be viewed here : http://www.flyafrica.info/forums/showthread.php?t=4667
Another thread of importance is the Air Crash Investigation - Helderberg Episode Synopsis which can be found here : http://www.flyafrica.info/forums/showthread.php?t=4667

Originally Posted by Blikkies via Private Message received

As a SA 295 fanatic, I want to take a new Helderberg SA 295 Air disaster thread onto in action.

Followed the airdeaster since the breaking news on the 28th of November 1987,until I stood at The Helderberg monument in Bella Mare in Mauritius , on the 12th of June 2008. The turning point in my life.

Still believe we can solve this tragedy mystery amongst ourselves and helping the passengers families getting their answers.

If you can please direct me into starting a new thread and maintaining it, I would be sincerely grateful.I want to take it upon myself into building upon your good intentions with this somber disaster and have some new answers on what REALLY happened on that ill-fated evening , upon the SA 295 ZS 747 Boeing. And why did it happened.

I do thank you in advance for your cooperation.

[Knoppies]

I would hate to see this one fade as well. Remember it too well to fade, but lets hope......

I get the occassional sms from Sam and I think she is still at it.
How about an update, someone.

[Tembani]

I was a B747 Senior First Officer in SAA, in those days. The crew on the Helderberg were all personally known to me. There was plenty of evidence that something was amiss. The Flight Engineers Association was strongly of the opinion that various issues (including the voice transcript, & evidence that missiles had been carried on board an SAA aircraft to Tel Aviv) should be brought to the attention of the Board of Enquiry, and in this regard, the chairman of the F/E Association, Peter de Beer, & a commitee member Jimmy Mitton, were summoned to Cecil Margo's home. They were informed that their "speculation" could have dire consequences for the country, was irrelevant, & were instructed to withdraw their submissions. I am told that the outbound crew, who were supposed to take over the inbound Helderberg, & continue through to JNB, reported that the island was crawling with DMI people the followng day, having been flown in, within hours, by SAAF C130. van der Veer was also there, apparantly handing out gold pens to all & sundry.
Captain Jimmy Hippert, a B747 management pilot on the island at the time, resigned his position within days of the accident.

[Athnamas]

Hay Hay All,

I have not fallen of the face of the earth and what would the "New Helderberg Thread" be without me

Hay Tembani welcome to the Helderberg Thread. All the points you have posted are all 100% true and I have spoken to a couple of the members of the Flight Engineers Association whom have confirmed the 'call' to Judge Margo's home. Well, well talk about tampering with evidence and swaying witnesses!! Highly irregular behaviour for a Supreme Court Judge!!

The fact that the Mauritius was swarming with Armscor Personnel the day after the accident has been explained away as follows: Of course Armscor was there, we were assisting in the Search & Recovery Operations!!

I have been told by many how above board and amazing Armscor is/was. Well I see that some of Armscor's dirty little secrets are coming out of the closet to haunt them.

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_A...351881,00.html

Apartheid skeletons rattled
04/07/2008 08:25 - (SA)

Erika Gibson, Beeld

Johannesburg - A court case in Portugal is threatening to reveal alleged skeletons from the apartheid and sanctions years in Armscor's closet.

A go-between, who apparently helped to acquire the air force's 50 Oryx helicopters, is suing Armscor for almost $300m (about R2.4bn) and the same amount in interest because he never received his commission on the transaction.

It was alleged that some of this money landed in the pockets of former Armscor employees, one of whom apparently bought property in France with his share of the "profit".

The shipping costs for the transport of the helicopter engines were also apparently "loaded" with hundreds of thousands of rands, which landed up in the corrupt hands of those who were allegedly involved.

Armscor opposing claim

Armscor confirmed on Tuesday that it had been sued in the preliminary hearing, which would take place in the commercial court in Lisbon.

A Portuguese legal team would handle the claim, which Armscor is opposing.

The company, Beverly Securities Ltd, belonging to the go-between, Jorge Pinhol, simultaneously began legal action against a Belgian bank, KBC, in the commercial court in Brussels, Belgium.

The bank's predecessor apparently handled the money transfer from South Africa to the French manufacturer Aerospatiale (that today forms part of Eurocopter).

It was also responsible for paying Pinhol's commission.

Project Adenia began in the 1980s when the South African Air Force had an urgent need for medium transport helicopters.

Pinhol aided negotiations according to which the Portuguese air force, with the quiet approval of the Portuguese government, initially would have bought upgrading systems for the South African Puma helicopters.

Couldn't afford guarantees

The negotiations went so well that the order was extended to comprise complete helicopters, which were to be assembled in South Africa.

The contract was signed in 1988 and the last helicopters were delivered to South Africa long after the new regime came to power in the country in 1994.

In 1994, Pinhol was unsuccessful in a Pretoria High Court case against Armscor because, as a foreign claimant, he had had to provide monetary guarantees for the costs of the dispute and he had been unable to do so.

In 1996, he was also unsuccessful in a claim against Eurocopter in France when the court ruled that his claim had nothing to do with the manufacturer, but rather with the Portuguese government and Armscor.

Since then, he apparently has obtained statements from former Armscor employees and about 30kg of documentation about the Oryx transaction has been taken from South Africa to serve as evidence.

The contract between Pinhol and Armscor apparently was stored in the South African Embassy in Paris and Pinhol had never been able to get hold of it.

Armscor recently denied that he was entitled to commission.

The payments, however, had in the meantime been traced to Panama and Liberia, among other countries, with the help of a Swiss auditor who specialised in tracking money laundering.

What else is Armscor hiding - pray do tell!

Have a good day all.

Sam

[Bingo]

Interesting as always...

Thanks Sammy.

[blikkies]

First of all, thanks for his assistance and guiding, all the honours to Gunship, to my new thread of the Helderberg.This gost of SA295 will be unmasked.And I hope to get the assistance of the most respected forensic in SA, Dr Klatzow.
Since the sunset of Sat 28th of November 1987 and the breaking news of the overdue of flight SA 295 ZS Helderberg by Pres PW Botha on the then SAUK TV News at 6 o` clock untill my standing at the Helderberg Memorial Monument at Bella Mare at Mauritius, I knew I had to take up the burning torch and continue the burning desire to unveil the truth, of what really happened onboard that ill-fated flight to Mauritius.
My condolences to all the relatives upon that aircraft, esp Mrs Jana Uys,the widow of the commander Dawie Uys, a respect Senoir Aircraft pilot in the SAA.She had endured a lot of cristism as well as unloyal and unasked reactions after that diseaster.And a lot of sick jockes to the Helderberg
Think the best person also to give answers to all the questions of is ....Mr Yacoob Khodacabus, the official controller from Mauritius that were the last one to had contact with the Helderberg and its crews.He can share light to all the critical questions of SA 295.And we will relive this ill-fated flight of SAA 295 from start to end, every moment and every emotion, up to the ctual moment of impact into the dark indian Ocean.
I will need all your support to make this thread work.And keep on contributing.Please dont insult, but rather building a trusted contribution.Do think everyone of us is eager to hear the truth and get this mystery out in the open
I thank you.

[NoIllegalHueys]

Welcome Blikkies

If you are engineer Blikkies - ex 31 Sqn SAAF - a special welcome

Blikkies if you have not done so I highly suggest reading this thread.

http://www.flyafrica.info/forums/showthread.php?t=4667

Dr Klatzow is a member here and has given some comments over the past few years on this thread. (the thread was closed as it was too bulky) and was by far the most posts and views (and still is it seems)


Welcome and good luck.

[dunesurfer]

I think we should start to think outside the box,study even people,s wehre abouts,travel plans say at least up to a couple of month,s before the dissaster.very important business men and woman included from south africa.

There might just be a link ,say even to the diamond trade.Why do i say so.For one,they control the goverments around the world.They are the ones who can make deals that even small countries cannot affortd on their budgets.

Lets just take the diamond trade in SIERRA LEONE.

What makes we think this way.When we were fighting cubans,russians on the borders of our country,Diamond money from south africa helped the russian economy,while the dealers where sitting in luxery houses in johannesburg,safe and sound,and yet nobody could point afinger tho them about a war.Ok,they might not know about war,but their money deals do well.

tHERE,S SOMETIMES MUCH MORE TO A STORY THEN THE EYE MEETS.

I,ve got samples of metal fragments that i think can be linked to some suspious deals with either KOREA,CHINA AND ALINK TO ISREAL.tHIS CAME WAY BACK FROM THE LATE 70,S.

[dunesurfer]

And under the cover of diamonds,they can transport what ever they want on civilian aicraft.Even missles packed as mining equiptment,and no red tape,because they control everybody around them.

link one.

http://judicial-inc.biz/b.lood_diamonds.htm

MANY LINKS WILL FOLLOW.

[blikkies]

Thanks for all the responces.No I am not anex 31 Sqn SAAF .I am just an ordinare guy, with an interest in the 3 most tragic SAA`s airdiseasters.Followed the 3 SAA`s aircrashes closely,nl......

the one of the Rietbok near Port Shepston...none survived
the Pretoria at the JG Strijdom airport in Windhoek....one 3 survived
as well as the SA 295 Helderberg......none survived.

Hope to hear Dr Klatzow`s views on new developments in the Helderberg.And thanks to all the responces thus far.

[avi-addict]

Originally Posted by blikkies

Thanks for all the responces.No I am not anex 31 Sqn SAAF .I am just an ordinare guy, with an interest in the 3 most tragic SAA`s airdiseasters.Followed the 3 SAA`s aircrashes closely,nl......

the one of the Rietbok near Port Shepston...none survived
the Pretoria at the JG Strijdom airport in Windhoek....one 3 survived
as well as the SA 295 Helderberg......none survived.

Hope to hear Dr Klatzow`s views on new developments in the Helderberg.And thanks to all the responces thus far.

Hi Blikkies, I also have a burning desire to know about all these accidents. I was a passenger on the Matroosberg on the same route as the Helderberg in the same year just 4months before the crash and it really had such an impact on me that I've read everything I could put my hands on about the crash. I also read about an employee of Pelendaba who committed suicide after interviewed by a journalist on the matter and about evidence papers that dissapeared.

Tnx for keeping this thread alive.

[SortieIII]

Captain Jimmy Hippert, a B747 management pilot on the island at the time, resigned his position within days of the accident.

How many days?

Like many of the rumours surrounding this tragic accident, this is just not true.

[blikkies]

Dear all.
Can we through the members of this thread perhaps get some feedback from the old Helderberg thread..like for example, did national Geographic made that investigation film about the Helderberg, like they did one some of the horiffic world airdiseasters.Any feedback from the ATC controllers in Mauritius during that night.Or anyone involved during the night of the crash.Or some of the investigators.perhaps some new light on the blue substance on the cargodoor.Or the theory of the explosion in midair or did the aircraft burst open with impact with the ocean.Or there were also a theory that the cargo-panel burst open and the cargo killed most of the passengers and crew on the topdeck of that Boeing 747.If possible can Gunship add this new threads link to the old thread.Dont think of the old members is aware that there is a new Helderberg thread up and running.In 4 months and 13 days , its the 21st anniversary of SA 295 ZS Helderberg.Thanks you all.

[Gunship]

Lo Blikkies

This is the one you need for the Nat Geo film that was produced :

Air Crash Investigation - Helderberg Episode Synopsis which can be found here : http://www.flyafrica.info/forums/showthread.php?t=4667

`~Cheers

Gunss

[blikkies]

Dear All Helderberg-fanatics

During the update on my own ``Helderg-investigation`` whilst looking at the National Geographic videoclips on Youtube, there is some serious question in my mind.It is all faccording the National Geographic series on SA 295, Cargo Conspiracy.

1.During the last moments of that flight, there had not been any oqygen masks dropped from the panels above the passengers.Why didnt the captain released the masks during that emergency.
2.The passengers had not been strapped in their seats.Some have been walking in the isle , moments before the crash.Or sitting losely on their seats.
3.According to the ATC tower in Mauritius, they received the Mayday call after 04.00 on the morning of the 28th.The official time of impact and the actual crash were on 00.07.Was it the official time of radio contact with the Helderberg, or were it the time Capt. Uys declared an emegerncy aboard.But there is still 4 hours missing.
4.Were the cabin door flung open completely or had it only been opened for a short while.And then being closed again.After closing it,the smoke got worse in the cabin as well as the cockpit.Why didnt Capt Uys not flung a door or two , totally open after descending to 14000 feet, to drop the smoke levels in the aircraft.And blow the smoke back to where it originated from.So that the passengers can breath normally as possible.
5.Why had there been 2 checklists on a 747.Were one for the smoke and one for the fire.Or one for a fire and another one that had been more updated.

That is some of the facts that rattled me.Maybe Dr Klatzow or some of the expert Boeing 747 engineers can clear that up for the group.Or any one that has knowledge of the emergency drills onbord a 747.

Thanks everyone.

[dunesurfer]

a thought.Is there somewhere stashed away still recovered parts of the helderberg around.Surely with todays DNA testing on metals,and impregnations,much more could come forward.

the metal samples i,ve got,is now on its way to the usa for dna testing and i should have answers in a couple of weeks.its done however cost free for me by a very good friend,and as its a favor,cannot rush things.

it seems to be very high quality titanium,but yet per square inch much lighter and yet same strenght.

[Knoppies]

3.According to the ATC tower in Mauritius, they received the Mayday call after 04.00 on the morning of the 28th.The official time of impact and the actual crash were on 00.07.Was it the official time of radio contact with the Helderberg, or were it the time Capt. Uys declared an emegerncy aboard.But there is still 4 hours missing.

Blikkies,

Before we go any further with this quote we must clear your reference to time as local time or UTC (GMT).

What is the source of the missing 4 hours?

One of the big mysteries of the investigation was the rumoured earlier fire. The CVR makes reference to a fire.

Sam in her investigation in my opinion, has convincingly argued that the "CVR tape fire" cannot be linked to the actual crash.
Some of us know there was an earlier fire but cannot prove it.
A lot of people, experts in their own fields, have made valuable contributions in the original thread. We are all watching the thread as see where it will go.
But lets move forward, please.
Like David and Sam, we are all waiting for evidence.

[blikkies]

My question today is...what happened of the recovered wreckage of the Helderberg, after the 2 inquests.Is it in the SAA Museum at the Oliver Tambo International Airport.Or is it been destroyed to cover the tracks of the mystery of that fatefull night.
Is it possible to based another inquery on that wreckage for the truth.Can DNA being located from it.And any clues of that blue substance on the cargo door , on the flight deck.
If Dr Klatzow can share some light on that, the thread will be sincerely gratefull.
Please all members, give some feedback of what you have, so that we as a team can work from that , into solving this mystery and keep this thread alive and kicking.Thanks.

[dunesurfer]

I think that some of the crew knew what they had on board that day.And to a certain extend knew how to manage it,if something should have happened.what they did,nt forsee was that whatever plan was on the table,it just did,nt work.Thats why there are some missing hours that we cannot explain.

[avi-addict]

Originally Posted by dunesurfer

I think that some of the crew knew what they had on board that day.And to a certain extend knew how to manage it,if something should have happened.what they did,nt forsee was that whatever plan was on the table,it just did,nt work.Thats why there are some missing hours that we cannot explain.

I recall an article I've read in one of the newspapers during the investigation and the item on board even had a code name.....just can't remember ....it was'nt Charlie....but it referred to a definite scarry item in the cargo hold!!
Am I talking B.....t?